We shared with you earlier a story about a potential Superman remake with Andy and Larry Wachowski producing it as well as James McTeigue directing it. Slashfilm was fortunate enough to talk with James McTeigue regarding the possible Superman remake. Here is an excerpt from the article they released:
Last week IESB reported a rumor that Warner Bros and DC Comics were in talks with Andy and Larry Wachowski to produce a Superman reboot directed by McTeigue. I asked James if there was any truth to the rumors what-so ever, and he laughed kinda nervously, and paused for a second, before giving me an interesting non answer: “You know… I… I would say… I’ll keep you guessing, actually. It’s good not to dispel every rumor, right?” James had been so forthcoming on previous questions, and quick to deny false rumors. I hate to read too much into his answer (or as it may be, his non-answer) but his hesitation seems to suggest there might be something to it. Maybe there have been some early talks, or possibly it is something the Wachowski Brothers are developing. But the non denial seems rather odd, especially coming off of denials on a handful of other rumored projects.
The full article:
http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/08/05/james-mcteigue-on-comic-book-rumors-plastic-man-probably-wont-ever-happen-wont-confirm-or-deny-superman-reboot/
This just adds more fuel to the raging fire of fanboys everywhere hoping for a totally kickass Superman reboot. So what do you guys think? Is this rumor true? Do you want James McTeigue to direct this film with Any and Larry Wachowski producing it?
[Post By: Kevin]
Yea it would have been nice if he confirmed or denied the rumor right now like he said about the two other comic properties he and the brothers have been rumored to be attached to for awhile. Though with how he stated things, maybe he and they are being looked at and he just doesnt want to mess thing up with WB and loose favor with them.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we know soon enough on where things will be heading.
yeah posted this first. on my sitelol www.supermansuperworld.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean you've stopped copying our entries? That'd be a first.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
Guys, if Grant Morrison's involved with the Superman film, the Wachowskis probably aren't, unless someone's shelling out some major dough to make them both play nice. Anyone remember the Invisibles/Matrix ripoff accusations?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.poormojo.org/pmjadaily/archives/002657.html
My apologies to those who had to be subjected to remarks from the whiner who begged for two days straight to be reinstated as an admin. Obviously I need to keep a closer eye on these comments.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
Oh yeah, as for the Invisibles/Matrix stuff, whatever truth there was to that accusation, it's all water under the bridge now. Still, I would laugh if this all ended up coming true and McTiegue + Wachowskis ended up adapting All-Star Superman.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYea i read that morrison doesnt really like the matrix brothers. But even if he was one of the folks on the script, he probably wouldnt need to be around them much. Just write a draft, it gets handed off to another writer like a david koepp as i said elsewhere, and then maybe koepp would continue to talk with morrison about elements and all that in the script. Then morrsion just maybe have a chat with the brothers. But its all a wait and see if wb can get a film going by the deadline, and if its a finanical risk they think will pay out for them in the end. I would like to see good things happen and every work out for wb/dc comics and the families, but i wouldnt be surprised as i said before if things dont work out in the end. It will be sad if nothing happens and we loose the supes we know.
ReplyDeleteFrom analysis I've read, WB has nothing to gain and maybe a lot to lose if they make a film.
ReplyDeleteTwo possible outcomes from a film.
1) It disappoints at the BO like SR. Look what
happened with the attempted Hulk and
Punisher reboots.
Result, WB loses more money and Jeff
Robinov could be shown the proverbial door.
2) It does well at the BO.
WB makes money. However the Court no longer
sees the franchise as damaged casuing it to
significantly increase the settlement WB
owes the Siegals. WB's profit from the film
could be wiped out by a larger settlement
owed the heirs.
And what's the point of a reboot if WB can't
make a sequel? A successful film and the
Siegals likely demand an arm and a leg to
license rights for a sequel. WB might be
unable to leverage the success into more
films.
Never say never, but its hard to see a financial advantage in WB doing a film.
Besides, WB specifically denied this rumor last week.
(sigh) No, WB did not. There's no proof of that. Steve's word is not proof. Steve specifically denied this rumor, which means nothing. He provided no link, just that they supposedly told him, which they didn't. Wake up dude.
ReplyDeleteCGrieco,
ReplyDeleteLet me say this about that.
The financials simply don't add up for WB to make another film before they lose Superman.
I don't see how a Superman reboot can cost any less than the tax-adjusted 205 million or so SR cost.
The FX alone have to not just match but surpass Transformers. An artsy film is nice, but a super-hero film has to be action, and more action. Then you can worry about the art of it.
It's all about male butts in the seats. Blockbusters are driven by young males. 'The Devil Wears Prada' was a great, great film, but even it could not get to 200 million.
Making a reboot additionally expensive is, IMO, the need to have not one but 3 or 4 hot young stars in key roles. Jimmy, the villain, Lois of course. The Spacey formula doesn't work. Great actor yes. Draw for younger movie-goers, no. Its clear in hindsight.
Action and a young known, popular cast is still not enough. And already this budget is pushing 200 million.
Marketing is the critical compliment. Another film has to make young guys turn out for premier weekend.
You can't get there from here. In other words, the 300 million plus a Superman film needs to be a success depends on a way over 100 million opening weekend. Given the common 65% drop summer blockbusters now experience going to weekend 2.
The marketing has to be creative, in your face and in place for 6 months before the film debuts. It basically has to convince young males that this is not their grandfather's Superman, their father's Superman - it is their Superman and he ain't no Boy Scout. Controversial, but the Boy Scout image is killing Superman. That kind of marketing campaign would cost beaucoup bucks. Lots more than SR's.
Action, cast, marketing. No way can I see a reboot costing less than SR. And no way can I see WB spending SR's budget on a new film. It's too big a risk to Robinov's job security and reputation.
you rock Cgreico you rock dude Join my site your opinion is more then welcome there www.supermansuperworld.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteThey benefit nothing from just sitting on this. Alan Horn already said that they want to make another film. So regarless of this court ruling, they were already planning on making another Superman film anyways. If they're not going to make another film at all, then they will lose the rights entirely or they should just sell the rights to another studio. The film also doesn't have to be less than $200 million. Superman Returns barely made a profit, but it still did and yet it sucked. Now, a really kickass great Superman film can and will make more than Superman Returns.
ReplyDeleteYour opinion means jack shit compared to the facts. Besides the credibility of IESB.net, James McTiegue's coy response, and even Variety themselves saying that a Superman reboot was in the works, yeah it doesn't matter what you think or thought, or even what Steve says. End of discussion.
ReplyDeleteTalking about cost, apparently Tom Welling is one of the most expensive actors on tv. He makes $175,000 per episode, up from $150,000 per episode last year. Geeze, cut down some of that cost and they might be able to afford some actual sets again. :P
ReplyDeleteThis information comes from TV Guide for those wondering.
[Kevin]
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI 'd guess that is why Welling keeps signing for additional seasons.
This season looks to be the last. But Welling is setting himself up nicely for work to follow by going into producing.
I never really watched SV after the first few episodes, but Welling seems to remain an enigma as he was then. Maybe that is why he can command such a salary on a barely watched network.
your so right CGreico your welcome to join my blogsite ive alwyas thought randolp was an arrogant prick and u realize it too www.supermansuperworld.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteand sorry dude charlie sheen is the most expensive actor on tv 10 million per episode! what tom makes is peanuts!lol maybe hes the highest paid actor on the Cw thats about it!lol
ReplyDeleteI already have andre. :)
ReplyDeleteCGrieco,
ReplyDeleteHorn said they "hoped" to make another film. Hardly a resounding comment.
WB clearly does not get Superman. DC really does not either. DC is actually redoing the origin story barely 5 years after they tried to redo it with Birthright. Which was a redo of the Byrne redo which failed.
I am guessing WB/DC will let the rights go. Create a new character based on the large Superman lore they retain.
The heirs. Won't be surprised if they make a bee line in 2013 to Marvel looking for that hot company to create a new version of Superman.
Hopes, plans, whatever. Either way, it's in their best interest to make another film. Let's wait and see if Latino Review, The Hollywood Reporter, and Variety confirm this info even more.
ReplyDeleteExactly Greico randolph apparently you an idiot who doesnt get the legal terms in doesnt matter what they hope, thye have a court order over there heads and u do realize in the documents that not only do they need to be in production by 2o11 but if they wanna avoid another lawsuit the dvd/bluray has to be released on of before 2013 your clueless randolph its going to get made sooner rather than Later
ReplyDeleteYa from what i read/hear about with the whole court thing at this present moment only dc comics owes the siegels any money made off of superman from what 99-present day and that was valued at i thin between 13-16million dollars, which i sure the company itself has plently of money made off the character from comics, cartoons, other merch out there.
ReplyDeleteThe court ruling said i believe that wb doesnt owe the siegels anything and only will owe something possibly if they dont have a film out in production by that court date of 2011.
Yes what ever wb decides to do is a risk but their is a possiblity that they could make a kick butt film and make the bucks of say TF2 or what not. Its all a waiting game. And it counts on casting, story, marketing and also other films due out before and after the film.
Now if come 2013 and the whole shuster factor. Yes dc could lose the rights on superman if things cant be worked out. Or if the license fees they could charge then is to high a value for dc/wb to think that it would be best to continue.
It will be a sad day to see that happen and for the dc fans to lose the character from their and forced to make a new subsitute superman character from the elements the make. Just like the family would have to recreate everything if they went to another company.
Well like i said it should be interesting to see if another film happens, and what comes out in 2013. Crossing my fingers to hear good things to happen. But will be disapointed if nothing good goes down.
you are correct and very level headed webhead :)
ReplyDeleteWell i try my best to be. i may and i know i dont know everything about wb, dc and the whole ongoing court stuff. But hopefully things do go in favor for us fans.
ReplyDeleteMy two cents on the matter:
ReplyDeleteI think it's obvious that we are on the verge of getting a significant Superman movie remake. Even the most crappy movies are getting remakes these days. I can confirm to everyone here, well pretty much gurantee everyone that we will be getting a new Supes movie.
WB won the battle to get a Superman movie out there by 2013 and you better believe that they are going to go ahead and do so. Why else fight for the rights?
I think the time from now until then will be sufficient for them to make a Superman reboot if they began working on it now.
Regarding this rumor I posted, well it seems very plausible so I am going to bet that it is real or that this is the direction that the WB is taking right now.
I am confident a movie is coming. It may be a long ways away but I believe we will get one. Now, like you guys, I only hope that the movie ends up being really good and having success like the Spiderman and Batman movies are enjoying.
[Kevin]
Well, if they have one in 2013, that means they would have to start filming in 2012. That is past the deadline, so they would create another lawsuit if they did that. If they are fast tracking a Superman film, it'll come out in 2011 or 2012 and then on dvd/blueray late 2011/2012. It's not really that far away, only two or three years away before we see one in theaters.
ReplyDeleteI am confident that they can produce a film before the date is up and if not then I wouldn't be surprised if they do a Smallville Superman movie (rush job project) to fulfill the date requirement.
ReplyDelete[Kevin]
exactly! the court order says they have to be IN PRODUCTION of a SUPERMAN movie in 2011 that means they hve to start ASAP! NOW!
ReplyDeletei forgot what article i read last month that said they would have to start production of a superman film in the next 11 to 18 months
ReplyDeleteLike I said, I think it's more then enough time.
ReplyDelete[Kevin]
well yea like i posted here and elsewhere they have by 2011 to have a film in production. Now i dont know if that means by jan 1st 2011 a film has to be in active development or if they have to by dec 31st of 2011. Now if its jan 1st they got roughly 17months to get something going.
ReplyDeletewhich i believe could be enough time to get something going. bearing they get a director and writers with at least a first draft/treatment script done between now and dec. So then the script could be oked by the studio by then.
Then between jan-probably say june/july at the least work on casting, and if everything goes well with that. And who knows how long it could take to get roles like clark/supes selected. Which seems to be the tough one to get.
So if they get cast set by june lets say they could probably start production by say sept-nov period. So they make the jan 1st legal date if thats the date. So then production can then continue through 2011 with rest of filming, post work, reshoots, and then start the whole marketing/promotions stuff.
Now if they go through the year of 2011 to get something going that gives us like 25months to get things moving with means more time to get a script ready and go. More time could be given for prep work, and more time for casting which can all be done.
We just regretably have to wait and see what goes out from WB.
There's not going to be a Smallville movie. That rumor was debunked.
ReplyDeleteTrue it was pretty much debunked, its a nice idea to think of. You know with other shows like bsg/prison break, and sg1/soon to be atlantis doing dtvs. It could be an option when the show ends who knows at this point. But when u do look at the deadline and all that. If they cant really get something going. Smallvill is a viable option they have and could easily set up soemthing. But will likely not.
ReplyDeleteNever say never. Actually they asked the audience at Comic Con whether or not they would like to see a Smallville movie and of course the fans there cheered. I wouldn't rule it out but it certainly wouldn't be a huge budget production but maybe a nice conclusion to Smallville.
ReplyDelete[Kevin]
A smallville movie would suck. They've messed with the Superman mythos too much, and not in a good way.
ReplyDeleteThe Superman reboot needs to be like Batman Begins.
ReplyDeleteA Smallville movie sucking is most certainly an opinion. There are obviously many fans of Smallville or otherwise the show wouldn't still be on the air. Sure it messed with the Superman mythos some but it also did a lot of good (opinion of course) and it's still a lot better then many other shows out there.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you on the Superman reboot being much like Batman Begins and I support that idea. I would love for a new Superman trilogy if it could have even near the quality of the Batman movies.
[Kevin]
Ya its to bad singer didnt go for an full on reboot for supes like nolan did for batman. And we got stuck with a vague history/quasi sequel for supes. Supes really should have had that full reboot treatment and bring supes to modern times film wise and use more better liked/known comics elements. Hopefully the next film doesnt make the same mistakes.
ReplyDeleteLook at the expression on the faces at Comic Con. I wouldn't rule out a SV movie just yet. There's too much seemingly coming together all of a sudden
ReplyDeleteTrue like i said really what would be the harm of a DTV film for smallville, other popular tv shows that have ended recently or while they were still airing have done it. Its not impossible to think about. We know smallville does very well with it dvd sales here domestically in the us and around the world. So it would give wb a good chunk of change. Plus it could be done in a short amount of time like a few months 2-3 i say would be niced compared to the stardard 7-8 days it normally takes to film one 42min episode. And they would probably only have to spend like 10million dollars or so and it could do very well in sales and double/trip its production cost. compared to risking 200million dollars on a big production for a theatical release film that could flop.
ReplyDeleteThough we know they are probably going to gun for a big production reboot. And smallville i see is a viable but yes less likely option to do in case things dont fall in line for big budget film. Since they got a good solid crew, writers, directors, and cast all in play.
Is just a wait and see game we got to play with wb/dc now. I am crossing my fingers that hopefully they can make the right dicissions and get a good film and make it be a decent hit they need wtih the right bo figures.
Anyone who thinks they are going to make a Smallville movie are delusional. It's not happening, end of story, moving on.
ReplyDeletei dont really care for a Smalvville Movie id RATHER A SUPERMAN MOVIE WITH THE CAST OF SMALLVILLE! A SUPERMAN MOVIE FIRST AND FOREMEOST WITH THE SAME CAST!
ReplyDelete"i dont really care for a Smalvville Movie id RATHER A SUPERMAN MOVIE WITH THE CAST OF SMALLVILLE! A SUPERMAN MOVIE FIRST AND FOREMEOST WITH THE SAME CAST!"
ReplyDeleteAre we supposed to understand the difference? What is intended to differentiate the SV universe from a Superman film starring the SV cast??
- thecolorsblend
i dont want a smallville movie with Clark still not wearing the red and blue costume or flying that would be stupid and ridiculous! i want superman movie with the cast of smallville and clark flying in the red and blue costume!
ReplyDeleteFair enough... although when most people refer to a Smallville movie, they usually mean "during the Superman years".
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
Like has anyone read the court ruling?
ReplyDeleteWB does not have to be in production of a film by 2011.
The court said if WB is not in production then the Siegals may sue them for reversion rights. If WB lost that suit it would cost about 6 million. That is chump change compared to what WB stands to lose if the reboot disappoints like SR.
The legal analysis on SH indicated WB would have a chance at beating the suit because the Court will not rule on the actual amount WB has to pay the Siegals till 2012 or 2013.
WB's argument in court for not doing a movie - they broke even on the last movie, doing another is a risk because they did not know the total budget ie. the liscense fee they would have had to pay to the Siegals.
Folks are blowing this court ruling into something it is not.
I think the issue for WB is, can a Superman film make north of 300 million?
ReplyDeleteEspecially since, between production, marketing, a star-studded cast and action packed film, any remake is going to clock in at 250 million minimum.
The history of follow-up films, even remakes, to a previous film's disappointing box is not good.
If more action were the answer then the latest Terminator would have done far better.
For Superman the boy-scout sort of boring image is killing the franchise. Young guys just aren't interested. Like it or not, young guys make or break summer blockbuster films.
Could a marketing campaign make guys turn out premier weekend? Nothing is impossible I guess.
That kind of marketing will cost a ton of money and will have to re-image Superman in a way many fanboys won't like.
WB is in a box with the franchise. When you don't know waht to do the best answer sometimes is to do nothing. Which I think is what they'll do with Supes.
McT's coy comment is nothing more than playing with the fans, IMO, cause he knows its easy to get a rise out of Superman fans. Like one of the SR writers watch the skies thing before ComiCon.
WB has a fair chance of beating the lawsuit. If they lose it will be like 6 million or so.
ReplyDeleteIf they reboot and it flops, it's going to cost them a lot more than 6 million.
Dreams are priceless. We fans want another Superman film like yesterday. WB is not about dreams however. They are about making money.
A remake ain't happening IMO anytime soon. If there is another Superman film, I think you are looking 10 - 20 years out.
Well all we as fans can do at this point is wait and see if first they will try and do a film by 2011, see if its the sucess it needs to be for the studio themself. Then how it effects the profits the siegels get from dc comics. Then come 2013 with the shuster's heir and what will go down from that. Like i said before i do hope things can work out between the parties so the character stays where he is. And if the families both get the rights they charge wb/dc a price that wouldnt be killing either companies.
ReplyDeleteIf WB is going to do something they'd have to have director and production company in place by the end of 2009.
ReplyDeleteFans won't have to wait too long now to know if WB is going to pass on another film or not. If 2010 dawns and there ios nothing going on, WB is going to pass. At least that will bring an end mostly to these bogus rumors.
Webhead mentions the success it needs to be for the studio. Tat is the big question mark. There is nothing right now in place that would make another film a success. No matter how much action is in it.
When a film disappoints, its sequel or a follow-up inevitaby does also. The negative attitude towrds SR would be a huge drag on a reboot.
Take Wolverine. It was a success for the studio, but not quite as big as the studio hoped for.
Good film, popular star at a time super-hero films almost inevitably make big money for studios - SR, THI and Watchmen being the sole exceptions.
X3 was not liked by audiences. The analysis I've read says that negative perception held Wolverine down from getting to 200 million domestic. It came close, but not quite.
It works the other way too. BB made a moderate profit for WB. It was a great film and its retention week in and week out was amazing. The audeinces positive perception of BB gave a huge boost to TDK.
BTW, BB was held down because of the negative perception of the previous Bat flick. Its opening weekend was dampened a lot because of bad memories.
It took 3 films from Batman to recover.
So even a great reboot is not likley to make WB a lot. The profit would come in the sequel to the reboot...but, WB will not be able to make a sequel.
The Bat model does not fit the Superman situation at WB.
Dice it and slice it any which way, but a reboot would be a massive risk to WB and Jeff Robinov in particular.
""
ReplyDeleteWell, here's what we know:
- We KNOW Grant Morrison bought a house in LA so he could "do mystery Hollywood stuff" (which didn't make any sense at the time, when he said it, but in hindsight...):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21870
- We KNOW he and Geoff Johns and Marv Wolfman have been hired to consult and write WB's DC film properties:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i7c23ccda60974aa212e4b64a53d2e876#
We DON'T know anyone's doing Superman. That's just rumor. Period. It just seems very curious, though, that in the past few weeks, there've been a lot of "wet dream" moments coming true. Suddenly Superman being done right, and by the right people, seems like a real possibility. Even Welling's getting to wear the suit at long fucking last. Can you blame anybody for jumping the gun? I mean, the Wachowskis and McTeigue doing a Morrison script is an awesome possibility, and would hardly turn anyone away.
I personally think it's impossible that WB would hire Johns, Morrison, and Wolfman to do DC stuff and then say, "...but you can't plan for Superman." It'd be like Marvel telling Favreau and Branagh they can't count on Cap showing up in the Avengers film.
Zaanan,
ReplyDeleteDuring this time period when the 3 writers were brought on Horn representing WB said under oath there is no Superman development going on at WB. He's not going to lie on something like that as the Court would issue a contempt charge if it came out otherwise. And the already bad vibes the Siegals have with WB would only be made worse.
Yes, DC writers are being brought on because besides GL, WB has Flash, Aquaman, WW in development. Not to mention the other quasi comic projects in development mentioned in the HR article.
The reason for doing a super-hero film is to get at least a 3 film franchise going.
The bigger dream is Spiderman which looks like it will become the first Bond superhero franchise. In other words Spidermaqn films will likely go on decade in and decade out. Changing actor, producer and the rest but being a permanent cash cow for the stuido.
Batman has the potential to turn into a permanent franchise. Nolan will move on but WB is likely going to go for a Bat 4 with new cast and director if Bats3 is huge.
The problem with a Superman reboot is that WB does not have the option of turning it into a franchise again.
Take Batman and Spiderman and X-Men. The big money is made in the second and third films. Even if a third film disappoints like X3, it still was a huge financial success based on the first 2.
Problem for Superman is that WB can't turn a reboot into a trology. Its one and out the door. The payday that might come with film 2 and 3 won't come most probably. Because of the legal issues.
Before studios can raise the money to do a blockbuster it has to pencil out. One of the key factors is the potential of a second and third film.
There is not that possibility for Superman. Even if they wanted to do another WB will have a hard time raising the cash when it has so many other potential franchises that look far more lucrative than Superman - because WB can actually turn them into a sequel producing franchises if the first film does well.
Yes, its every fan's wet dream. But when you come back to financial reality, the loss of Superman in 2013 and WB's need to make a profit, its a dream that seems unlikely to happen.
dvnrandolph, while I think you have a point about how long it took Batman to recover from B&R, I think you're making a mistake in applying that to Superman. Sure, Singerman pissed off the fanbase but for the public at large it was simply a non-entity. It never made too much of an impression. Therefore I don't think a reboot will face the same uphill battle.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
colorsblend,
ReplyDeleteI think there'd be some drag on a reboot from SR. Maybe not as big a drag as B&R on BB, but still a factor.
Either way, if a reboot was a moderate success like BB, the other part of the equation is the sequel or sequels. That is where the huge money is to be made from leveraging a modestly successfuly reboot.
WB won't be able to get to that payday.
Because of the legal issues. The Siegals might charge such a huge liscensing fee as to make a sequel finacially not viable or just walk and take their rights to Marvel in hopes of that studio creating a lucrative new character for them.
"The Siegals might charge such a huge liscensing fee as to make a sequel finacially not viable or just walk and take their rights to Marvel in hopes of that studio creating a lucrative new character for them."
ReplyDeleteFUD, pure and simple. The Siegels might do that, but they do not and will not own anything that makes a Superman franchise recognizably Superman. A "Marvel Superman" is a pipe dream useful only as a legal threat. It will not make the money the Siegels want it to. A Superman in name only will be rejected by the public and will not be at all lucrative. Superman Returns proved this. Eventually the Siegels will realize they have to compromise with DC and Warners to make any money whatsoever.
Zanaan,
ReplyDeleteI'm not hopeful about a reboot being done because my hope got burned out in 2007/2008. I discounted arguments then that the future looked in question because of the economic reality of the franchise.
Now I believe finacial viability is the issue for WB. Coming from recent things they've said.
In THR story Horn says, besides SR issues, WB has other problems with the franchise.
He doesn't specify the problems. However, if you read the court document, you get an idea of WB's problems.
In the document, WB calls the franchise damaged, boring and passe.
Putting two and two together, I think the problem WB has is that it's not sure if Superman can still make money, that maybe its been milked for all it can give.
Even if there wasn't the legal issue, I think its not a given WB would make another film because of questiona about the franchise's ability to turn a profit for WB.
DV, all your opinions, theories about what WB will/could do are irrelevant at this point. The FACT is WB is fasttracking/developing another Superman film. Variety confirmed. That should be more than enough to convince us. End of discussion. The trial, court ruling, and everything before it is in the past now. Things change like that, and apparently have.
ReplyDeleteDvnrandolph, How on earth has Superman been milked for all it's worth? The failure of a dud film is hardly the case. Batman is a classic example.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I see too many kids wearing T-shirts with the \S/ logo on them to believe you. Not to mention the continuation of Smallville after nine years, and it's STILL one of the top ten most downloaded shows of the year. Believe me, the suits at Warners would be well aware of these considerations.
DVN, you've waffled on and on saying the same thing, despite the barrage of rumors and info leaking out now. For a franchise that you think is dead, there's a hell of a lot of news emerging about it!
Go away and let us enjoy the movement on the Superman front. After all, you don't believe it anyway!
And, do we need news here about a film (or anything) illustrated with the \S/ logo from Singerman??
ReplyDeleteThat franchise IS dead, and I for one don't want to be reminded of it ever again if I can help it.
Keep up the good work Colors & Kevin!
dvnrandolph,
ReplyDeleteI understand your perspective, however... let's keep in mind that WB didn't want to lose the Superman rights in the trial. Therefore, they're going to do and say everything they can to downplay the viability of the franchise. It's possible that they were being straight with the judge. It's also equally possible they were taking a different tack:
"You guys want the rights to the SUPERMAN franchise? REALLY? That one hasn't made money for us in DECADES. Look at how terrible the last one did. You really don't want that, do you?"
And so on.
I don't think WB would pass on a Johns/Morrison/Wolfman Superman treatment, given that each have proven their ability to write stories that stay true to the character and also are popular with the fans. WB's "other problems" largely stem from the fact that they DON'T GET the character, a problem remedied by the above brain trust.
I think we'll be hearing more about the Superman franchise sooner rather than later, personally.
Also... people keep mentioning that Variety confirmed a new Superman film? I searched up and down that site and didn't find that article. Link?
Yea like i have said hopefully things will go well and we get a new better film for superman, and the property can all be worked out between everyone to get what they all want. I am sure with all the profits that can and are made from the character it could still be viable for wb/dc wanting to continue it. Plus the whole siegel factor too.
ReplyDeleteLIke i and others have said yes in the end come 2013 the families could take their share of the character's rights off to another company, but with just the basics of what they got and would have to make the character anew its less likely it would become as sucessful as it did for dc/wb the past 70yrs. So in the end if money really is all the families want, it would be the smarter move to leave it were the money is coming in, and all that.
To dvnrandolph.
ReplyDeleteTurning a Superman reboot into a franchise again is impossible? That is full of BS. Yes it can. If Batman can bounds back and recover so can Superman. Superman is popular as Batman and Spider-Man are. Sorry but I agree with Colors and Father on this one. Oh the Siegels really need to just let Superman go. He belongs with DC Comics and that is where he needs to stay. The fans are the ones that made Superman possible. Without them then Superman is basically dead.
It's a short sentence among others in the last article they had about WB's DC projects.
ReplyDeleteWelcome back, Finian. Good to see you here again.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
Guys, first of all, Colors & Kevin, thanks for keeping this blog ongoing.
ReplyDeleteI hate to go all off topic, but since this is a blog and not a website, where I can just start a new thread. This is Superman related in a way. Has anyone seen the Nicolas Cage movie "Knowing"? I just watched the b/r last night. Entertaining movie with a lot of religion vs science context to it.
Well, I'm sure everyone knows that Nic Cage is a huge Superman fan. So much so, he named his child Kal-El and he was once up for the role in the Tim Burton SM project. I think Cage used his movie Knowing as a chance to make his own Superman movie.
From this point on, there are spoilers to Knowing, so if you haven't seen it and intend to watch the movie stop here.
Ok. There are some things I picked up on that makes me feel Cage was making his SM movie. It could be just me, but I don't think he was being very subtle.
1. Cage plays a scientist, who in the end, discovers that the world is doomed to destruction and "allows" his son to go to another world.
2. The young son's name is Caleb Koestler. Well the initials first off, CK=Clark Kent, and then the name Caleb, just switch the C for K and the B for L and you get Kal-El
3. The planet is destroyed by the sun
4. The spaceships the son is "allowed" to leave in bare a resemblance to the Donner S:TM spaceship, Kryptonian structures and to the Fortress of Solitude.
5. While it appears that they are more children survivors, it can be argued they are only two survivors of the planet, ie: Kal-El and Kara.
Again, I'm sorry for taking up space here on this, I just wanted to see what you guys thought of this if you have seen the movie. Just some thoughts I had.
FYI, the previous post is from me.
ReplyDeletestartreker how u been man
ReplyDelete"Go away and let us enjoy the movement on the Superman front. After all, you don't believe it anyway!"
ReplyDeleteIs that necessary? DVN has every right to have and express his own opinion. Telling him to go away and stop raining on our parade is an Apologist tactic. It's no different than what BTN did during the lead-up to SR, except we're the ones doing it now. Let's be better than that. He has a valid point, and given WB's track record with Superman, I can't exactly blame him for being gun-shy.
"I think Cage used his movie Knowing as a chance to make his own Superman movie."
And here I thought Proyas had totally fallen off with that flick. Looks like I'm going to need to queue that one up in my NetFlix, now.
Say, whatever happened to the rumor that WB was looking at J.J. Abrams to direct? Anyone think that plus the DC brain trust would be awesome?
Well on jj front he probably doesnt want to get mixed up with supes again after the fan backlash years ago. Plus he is tied to paramount for a few yrs i believe.
ReplyDeleteYes as for wb's track record for superman it doesnt look good. But their is always a chance things could change/are changing with wb and dc.
So i just really hope for the best. And hopefully we fans dont get screwed over again.
Yeah, Abrams is with Paramount for a bit, due to Star Trek. I think. But wasn't there some kind of weird legal cooperative thing between WB and Paramount that would allow Abrams to work for both?
ReplyDeleteStill haven't found that Variety article people keep referencing. All I found was the IESB one:
http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7198:iesb-exclusive-superman-rumblings-begin-now&catid=43:exclusive-features&Itemid=73
Not exactly the same thing. I did find a post from Anne Thompson's blog interviewing Singerman-without-a-franchise, but that's also not what I was looking for. Help, anyone?
It's this one dated July 25th.
ReplyDeleteWB still seeking DC strategy
Film development proceeds slowly, other content debuts
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In theory, last summer's $1 billion haul for Warner Bros.' "The Dark Knight" should have supercharged the studio's plans to spin off DC Comics' stable of superheroes into successful film franchises.
But Warner Bros. still doesn't have an overall strategy, even as it has firmed plans for the "Green Lantern" feature set for July 17, 2011. It recently put the glowing ring on Ryan Reynolds to star in the actioner that will be directed by Martin Campbell, two-time Bond franchise rebooter.
The studio has access to well-known characters such as Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and the Flash -- properties that have the potential to mint a lot of coin for the coffers of Warner Bros.' various divisions should a pic score with audiences.
The DC move would seem like a no-brainer. But it's easier said than done. Studio executives admit to being delayed by the writers' strike and then by the takeover of New Line. And WB toppers Alan Horn and Jeff Robinov would like the studio and DC to closely develop superhero pics together, rather than hand off projects to individual producers. They're also aiming for each division at the studio to time the release of everything --from licensed merchandise like T-shirts and action figures to exclusive DVDs, videogames and digital content -- to when a pic gets released in order to build up the tentpole's franchise potential.
Meanwhile, the Home Entertainment and Interactive divisions aren't waiting for the big features to roll out; they're moving ahead with DC-based projects of their own.
However, the studio has yet to tap an executive to shepherd DC Comics' adaptations the way Marvel has a dedicated team to run its own film division. DC currently consults on projects the studio is developing.
Warner Bros. has spent years trying to come up with a strategy, the way Marvel has done with its own comicbook properties.
And outside of "Green Lantern," Warner Bros. has yet to officially announce plans on which superhero it will greenlight next. Ask the studio about the next Batman installment and it says it's all up to how director Christopher Nolan wants to proceed. Marvel, on the other hand, has skedded its next pics -- "Iron Man 2," "Thor," "Captain America" and "The Avengers" -- through 2012.
For now, DC's far lesser-known properties are moving forward, with supernatural Western "Jonah Hex" out next year and actioner "The Losers" headed into production, while projects for better-known characters like Aquaman, the Flash, Green Arrow and Shazam are still being developed.
Another reboot of Superman is also in the works, but needs to start production by 2011 in order to bow before the character rights revert to the heirs of Superman creators Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel, in 2013, who will demand steep licensing fees.
While a date has not yet been set, the studio does want a new Batman pic for summer 2012.
Thanks Zanaan,
ReplyDeleteThe last thing Save Superman wants is to become a BlueTights.
You understand my reluctance at being hopeful.
I'm just going by what WB said in court a month ago.
Johns, Wolfman and Morrison have been on board since last fall. WB said, in the THR article, that Morrison's and Wolfman's projects were in early development. They would not comment further.
In court WB said about the same time that Superman is not in development.
Steve quoted a WB statement last week strongly denying these rumors.
But back to what WB said in court, if Morrison was working on something Superman, or the other two, for WB to deny that under oath puts them in legal jeopardy. No way do I see that going on.
So I have to assume whatever Wolfman and Morrison are working on, it ain't Supes.
You asked could one conceive of the 3 writers coming over and WB saying you can't plan Superman?
I look at it differently. The three came on board and WB showed them the projects in development, which Superman isn't, and asked for their direction and brain trust efforts on projects in the pipeline. I doubt Superman even came up based on how this is playing out.
JMHO.
CGrieco,
ReplyDeleteThis is what you originally said Variety said:
The FACT is WB is fasttracking/developing another Superman film. Variety confirmed
But the article you posted after that only has Variety saying "a reboot of Superman is in the works".
Huge difference.
Fans are setting themselves up for a fall bigtime IMO, as I used to do, if they think WB is going to make a reboot before they lose the rights in 2013. You read something into what Variety said and so stated that as fact but, if you look at what Variety actually said, it was not that a film was being fast tracked. You mixed that up with the debunked IESB rumore saying it was fast-tracked.
Hang on. This DVN guy has flat out stated his opinion as fact, totally disregarding things like the Variety article, dismissing any possibility of a Smallville movie, and stating and restating that Warners are clueless when it comes to Superman.
ReplyDeleteWhat's Warners track record with Superman? A dud film thanks to Singer. It's clear by their reluctance to rush into a sequel that they have hopefully learnt their lesson. If they hadn't we'd be complaining about Singer's "Man Of Steel" right about now.
If DVN can tell other people he's right and everyone else is wrong, based on his own "gut feeling" he can piss off as far as I'm concerned....
Oh hang on again Mr Pedantic. He said "fast tracking/DEVELOPING" and Variety states a Superman film is "in the works"
ReplyDeleteWell, well, well.
What's the difference between developing and in the works??
Sheesh
..or in short. You don't believe there will be a Superman film.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing more to add, surely?
The rest of us are enjoying the news, rumours and speculation
Go away
Come on fatherfinian,
ReplyDeleteThe Siegals laywer Toberoff is brilliant. He has won copyright cases right and left. he has done so well at it he has formed his own production company.
Morison and Wolfman are working on early development of WD DC projects.
Unspecified to this point.
Horn said under oath Superman is not in development. They said it again a week ago.
If Toberoff were to find that Horn was lying and Morrison or Wolfman were working on Superman stuff he'd have WB in court for contempt and a massive fine.
WB is not that stupid. This is the real deal. Am I going to beleive IESB or a flippant remark by McT? Or am I going to believe WB who, if they lied in court a month back, will be in deep trouble.
I'm assuming WB didn't lie. Cause huge fines would be in order if they did. Morrison and Wolfman could also be in legal jeopardy too. No way WB would do that.
I dunno what projects the two will end up on, but I am certain it won't be Superman.
BTW, to prove that action is where the action is, GI Joe came in at a stunning 57 million over a non-holiday August weekend. The third or 4th highest gross ever.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see it but the studio apparently limited previews to critics prior to its release.
Didn't hurt it seems. Like I said, action is where the action is. If a stuiod is doing a summer blockbuster. We'll see if it gets to 200 million domestic. Doubt it, but the stuido has to be happy.
Yea as a fan myself since SR came out and we had the back and forth rumors/no rumors stuff for past 3 years i have at times given up with supes news myself. I do hope a slime hope things can happen and whos to say it couldnt really. Yes te variety of reports out their we dont know for sure what is going on. But if thir isnt anything happening right this moment whos to say something couldnt happen within the next few months, and all that.
ReplyDeleteI do cross my fingers we can get something from wb and all that. But really if the deadline wants to be met and the studio has been having so many problems getting things going on the motion picture front, doing a dtv/ or even possible theatical release film for smallville could end up being what they could go with. Since its the only superman project in production currently and any type of film from that front could be made in a short amount of time. Only time will tell.
Hang on a minute. Am I missing something?
ReplyDeleteSurely the Variety news, McT's remark and the Morrison/Wolfman stuff has has occurred AFTER Horn's testimony.
And didn't the Judge pretty much direct Warners to get a film into gear prior to 2011 or suffer consequences?
Superman's been kicking around for a while now. We know various people have been pitching ideas pretty much since 2006. It wouldn't be that difficult for Warners to "officially" get a film into "pre-production".
DVN, I think your theory would hold water if Horn swore in Court not to make anymore Superman movies.
ReplyDeleteYea i know father, their was all those reports of different takes coming in and out for awhile now. then with the new date they have. It is possible something could click in the coming months. I just hope we get something hopefully and hopefully it wont be full of the same mistakes SR was.
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering if the Smallville/Metropolis movie rumour could even be some sort of back up plan. I still maintain the expressions on the faces at the Comic Con panel everytime the movie was mentioned allude to it being more than just a "rumour"
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, you just don't go to Court to fight for nothing. It would've been settled by now if Warners have lost interest
Exactly, Horn's statement was DURING the trial. Now it's after that with that court ruling. Things change like that. Yes, they weren't developing a Sueperman film during the trial but they are now.
ReplyDelete"I've been wondering if the Smallville/Metropolis movie rumour could even be some sort of back up plan"
ReplyDeleteMy reference point is that WB is well aware that a significant portion of the fanbase digs SV and so, worst case, they could throw together a TV movie for tops $5 mill and not only avoid the lawsuit but make a tidy profit in the process. It's the path of least resistance.
And, who knows, maybe give people a reason to give a crap about the Superman franchise again.
- thecolorsblend
Fasttracking, in the works, it means the same basic thing. All this arguing is pointless. We'll find out sooner rather than later who's right, won't we.
ReplyDeleteSo what's your definition of "in the works" then? It sure as hell isn't WB just sitting on another Superman film.
ReplyDeleteYou know, SaveSuperman.com seems to go by two rules, and two rules only. Rule #1: Steve is always right. Rule #2: When Steve is wrong refer back to rule #1.
ReplyDeleteYeah Colors. Does the Court specify a theatrical film, or just a film?
ReplyDeleteThe Court ruling requires a theatrical release followed by release onto home video.
ReplyDeleteDTV SV/Metropolis film wouldn't count. They'd have to do a theatrical release. If they did that I think you are talking a 20 - 30 million dollar film. Not a summer blockbuster. As long as Superman appears in it, whether there is much FX or not, it would satisfy the Court finding. And be a lot less risky than making a 200 million dollar blockbuster.
CGrieco, I agree. we will know failry soon if WB is going to do another film or not. I'd say if there is no script or director identified by late 2009/early 2010 WB isn't making a film.
My logic for those dates is that a film would be a huge risk. WB would not want to rush it as SR was rushed. SR didn't go into production until Aprill 2005 for a July 2006 releases.
Normally such a film would be in production 1 and 1/2 year plus ahead of release. Like GL will be in production this fall for a summer 2011 release.
With casting likely to take months, pre-production being intense and the rest, the script and director need to be in place no later than early 2010.
Again, I agree we will know soon enough - right around XMAS time I'd bet.
"The three came on board and WB showed them the projects in development, which Superman isn't, and asked for their direction and brain trust efforts on projects in the pipeline. I doubt Superman even came up based on how this is playing out."
ReplyDeleteUh... what? Morrison and Johns were hired back when WB was hearing pitches for Superman. Waid and Meltzer were also involved, as was Millar. Millar's we already know. Meltzer's involved overcomplicating things with Shuster's daddy issues. Waid pitched Birthright. Morrison pitched All-Star. Johns we don't know. Superman DEFINITELY came up. It was how they got hired!
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/11/how-to-reboot-the-superman-movie-franchise-comic-writers-chime-in/
"What's Warners track record with Superman? A dud film thanks to Singer."
Sadly, no. It's a LOT more than that, Finian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_film_series
"If DVN can tell other people he's right and everyone else is wrong, based on his own "gut feeling" he can piss off as far as I'm concerned...."
That's not what he's doing. He's trying to cushion the blow, to prepare us for a negative outcome that nobody wants. But how is you telling him to go away any different from what you're claiming he's doing?
"The thing is, you just don't go to Court to fight for nothing. It would've been settled by now if Warners have lost interest"
Man, no lie. QFFT.
Yea hopefully their is good news coming soon in the coming months of actual 100% confirmed plans, director/writers on board. If not it will be disapointing for sure, but understandable with how things have been with superman since SR. I will be pissed in the end if the last film via wB if dc looses the rights ends up being SR, and all the supes films stuck in the old 70s take of the character. It would be great to have a more modern take film happen and i hope it does. But we just have to play the old waiting game and hope we get what we want to see.
ReplyDelete"Morrison pitched All-Star."
ReplyDeleteMan, that'd be freaking awesome if an All-Star Superman movie got the nod as the reboot's source material. I could die a happy man.
"Johns we don't know"
Knowing him, it's probably something that somehow manages to reconcile SV, Singerman, Lois & Clark, all four of the Reeve movies (including the Donner Cut of S2), STAS, Fleischer, the Superboy show, Ruby Spears and George Reeves into a single universe. The pacing would be shot completely to hell but at least there'd be no continuity problems.
- thecolorsblend
colors,
ReplyDeleteI totally agree on both counts. I'm still unsure whether I believe the Wachowski's are involved, since Morrison is... but hell, money's the universal lubricant and as you said, it was a long time ago.
I also think that, with Johns' continuity mending and Morrison's ideas and Wolfman's tight plotting, a Superman film from that brain trust CAN'T POSSIBLY MISS. It'll generate at least as much buzz as the GL script and have fanboys salivating and creaming their jeans.
As far as the financial concerns stemming from legal issues, I think there's two things to keep in mind. The first is that WB didn't fight for the rights to WHAT THEY BELIEVE is a broken franchise. That's just bad business sense no matter how you slice it. Finian's got it right on that count.
The second is that WB knows that in order to make money off of Superman, they're going to need to cooperate with the Siegels. The Siegels, however, don't know they're going to need to cooperate with WB. This is because of Toberoff. Ol' Toby's the real villain here, whispering in the Siegels ears. When you think of him, picture Agent Orange from Johns' GL run. He just smells money, and lots of it. He's baited them with promises of taking Superman elsewhere so they can make more money than what the evil WB suits will pay.
This isn't viable. WB knows this. They know their version of Superman is the icon. They know that's the one that sells bathmats and shampoo and beach balls. They know they own all the elements that make that icon recognizable and in order to get anything that the public will accept as Superman, the Siegels are going to have to play nice.
So how to make money off a Superman film? Bash DVN all you want, HE'S right in saying the profit doesn't come until the sequel. It doesn't. So what's WB to do?
Simple. Make a classic Superman film. Make it hit all the right notes. Hire the best people to do it, who'll use as many of the elements that WB owns and will own as they can. Then, when that film generates moderate bank, outstanding DVD sales, and a hell of a lot of goodwill, turn to the Siegels and say:
"Well, we stand poised to make another billion dollars like Nolan did with TDK. But since you want the rights, here you go. Good luck following the previous movie up, though, since you don't own anything that the public wants in the next film, like Lex Luthor, the Daily Planet, Brainiac, etc. If you change your mind and want a cut of a billion dollars plus the merchandising, call us."
And walk away.
The above's is a lot of speculation, yeah, but it's the ONLY scenario that fits with what we're seeing here. We KNOW that Morrison and Johns pitched Superman ideas (the MTV article I linked). We KNOW they were "quietly hired" as consultants in the aftermath, though everyone thought nothing came of it (the THR article). We KNOW Morrison bought a house just so he could be on-hand (the CBR article). We KNOW that WB has called the franchise broken, boring and passe; BUT we also KNOW there's no way in hell they'd hold onto the rights if that's what they really believed. In the corporate world, if something's that broken and you can't fix it, you jettison it. It's not making you any money, it's dead weight, get rid of it any way you can.
ReplyDeleteLook at what Time Warner's doing to AOL. That's what you do when a division isn't working for you the way it has in the past. You DON'T fight to keep it.
But WB has fought to keep Superman. Which tells me they're playing sly ball. They hired Johns, Morrison, and Wolfman "quietly". When? Last fall. Hm, what a coincidence. Johns and Morrison pitched Superman last fall. Then they got hired last fall. But they're not working on Superman, no. Definitely not.
I'm not being sarcastic. They WEREN'T officially working on Superman until after the ruling. Because WB knew it was coming up. They wanted to be able to say, in court, "No, we don't have anything planned for Superman right now." They didn't want to have to pay out on that too, if the Siegels somehow won the case. Now that WB's won, they can begin. And they have a deadline.
See, for WB, the Siegels aren't the threat. Toberoff is. Time Warner gets suits like the Siegels' EVERY DAY. As others have pointed out, Toberoff's the one that's got the studios quaking in fear. He's the continuing threat. He's the one to beat. You can't beat him in court. So how do you beat him? You convince his clients it's not worth their while to fight you and that it'll be more lucrative to cooperate with you so you can both get that payday you deserve.
Only way to do that is to convince the Siegels that there's life left in the franchise, and that neither one of you holds all the cards to making it successful.
Which is PRECISELY what WB's doing. The IESB rumblings, the THR article, Morrison's buying a house, the MTV article, and yes, even the Variety article all add up to this. However, all bets are off if Toberoff figures out some legal maneuver to yank Lex and the Daily Planet, etc. away from WB. If that happens, however, Toberoff's going to disappear quietly and be found floating in a river somewhere. Because a ruling like THAT, where years of development above and beyond the original creator's intent are ripped from the secondary creators, will undermine the public domain, not to mention set a precedent that could allow Disney's characters to be stolen from them, among others. And you don't fuck with the mouse.
Guys, I'm betting we're gonna get a new Superman film and it'll be the best one ever because WB's got to do it right this time. If they don't, not only are THEY fucked, but Toberoff's still gonna be on the loose and going after them and everyone else. WB's got the right people in place to write and it's only a matter of time before the right people get working on it, because that's the best way to shaft Toberoff in the ass.
Thank you, CGreico, for pointing me to that Variety article. It lends weight to the THR one, no doubt:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118006484.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&query=wb+still+seeking+dc+strategy
No prob man. What does the Hollywood Reporter article say?
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah I agree, WB really did think that Superman wasn't profitable anymore they wouldn't keep the rights to it they would try and sell the rights to another studio.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you're right Zanaan but (1) what you're saying makes some sense and (2) if it's Grant Morrison working on ANYthing to do with Superman, I'm all for it.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
Yea their is so many factors to look into here. Hopefully us fans are not screwed once again from the Wb and we can get a better rounded film for supes and all that. As for siegel's laywer i read up/listen to folks talk about him online and he does seem to be the wild card their.
ReplyDeleteI know he has won alot of copyright cases for the owners/heirs to alot of properties like lassie and others i believe. In the end i really do hope things work out for wb/dc and the siegels/shuster families so everything stays in place where it is known. Either way a non clark superman like character for dc wont cut it to the fans, and a non dc universe supes wont cut it either. All the elements need to stay together if any one want to have a success character. I do hope like i said things can be worked out and all that.
Like i said before if money is really what the families care about more wouldnt it be smarter to leave the character where he is making the millions and millions of dollars daily/weekly/monthly/yearly. Then trying to recreate said character with only basic elements and hope it can take the storm again? that likely isnt going to happen.
I hope one of these days in the coming months i get online and see some good news official news that is reguarding supes. Then hopefully by the time 2013 rolls around we fans wont be screwed out of things then.
"CGrieco said...
ReplyDeleteYou know, SaveSuperman.com seems to go by two rules, and two rules only. Rule #1: Steve is always right. Rule #2: When Steve is wrong refer back to rule #1.
August 10, 2009 12:19 AM "
You are almost right about one thing CGreico, SaveSuperman.com does listen to Steve a lot. You want to know why?- It's because he has been almost 95% RIGHT!
Is he wrong about this? Sure, it is looking that way. But the keyword there is "looking." I take everything I see on the Internet, yes even from here, with a grain of salt. As it has been discussed ENDLESSLY in this thread so far, there are many complexities to the issue of another Superman movie.
I for one...well I am hoping that what these articles are saying pans out. But to come on here and essentially take a jab at Steve and this website is quite frankly; sad. Why? Other then Darkseid appearing on Smallville and possibly this, Steve has been right a lot more then other so-called "insiders" like Showtime and Terminal. I know you quoted Showtime over on Andre's ripoff site, but that is your WORST example to post. Showtime has what? A 15% success rate? At best?
Just saying, when you weigh the accuracy of one insider against another, your knock on Steve is a wildly off-base. Other than that, I like your opinions and evidence based approach greatly.
"You are almost right about one thing CGreico, SaveSuperman.com does listen to Steve a lot. You want to know why?- It's because he has been almost 95% RIGHT"
ReplyDeleteYou're right. The first anybody said about Tom Welling suiting up in *ANY* capacity for season 9 was Steve. I commented on that entry and no matter what those comments sound like given what we know now, I didn't really believe that it would happen. I was wrong, Steve called it (and did so at least a month ahead of AICN's BS "Metropolis" thing, btw).
- thecolorsblend
Steve is 95% right? LOl...lol, no he isn't. He's never right. We didn't need him to tell us that WB was going to reboot Superman. That was common sense. But if you want to blindly follow him no matter what that's your decision. You would rather believe him over other actual credible websites, but that's fine. You have the right. Oh and Steve wasn't right about Tom Welling suiting up. That doesn't count. A trench coat over a shirt with the S on it? Um, no, that doesn't count as suiting up, not in my book anyway. Steve also said that WB had executives dressed up as fans telling them about the costume and taking them into a secret room or some bullshit like that. So please, don't insult my intelligence.
ReplyDeleteShowtime has been right more than Steve, but whatever believe him if you want, it's your choice. You're just proving my two rule theory about this site. It's sad that I'm taking a jab at Steve? Well it's even more sad for people like you who follow the least credible person and website out of all others on the internet, now that is sad. Cased closed, moving on. Here's to a Superman reboot! :)
ReplyDeleteSteve didn't report the secret room thing. That was AICN.
ReplyDeleteAnd, it's not that you take a jab at Steve that's sad, it's the fact that you come here at all if you hate Steve, the site he started, or those that follow his reports. People here that hate Showtime don't go and follow his posts all the time.
As it stands, this is all just internet geeks trying to show whose boss. Who the hell cares who's right more often then the other, what's right is that the story eventually gets out.
Steve, like Showtime, can only go off of what they are told by their sources. If there sources are wrong or misleading then there is nothing that anyone can do about it.
Oh...And, what Tom is wearing on the show is being called his suit...By the PRODUCERS of the show. It's not the classic suit, but if they are calling it a suit, then Steve's source would have referenced it that way as well, and Steve passed it along to us.
I don't care if Steve is right 100% of the time or not. Before we destroyed his credibility by our childish antics at the website Steve was getting many more scoops that turned out to be correct then what he gets now.
The truth is NOBODY has any fucking clue at all about what is going on with a Superman film. NOBODY. Everything is speculation and rumors at this point and to pretend otherwise is foolish.
"As it stands, this is all just internet geeks trying to show whose boss. Who the hell cares who's right more often then the other, what's right is that the story eventually gets out."
ReplyDeleteBingo.
"I don't care if Steve is right 100% of the time or not. Before we destroyed his credibility by our childish antics at the website Steve was getting many more scoops that turned out to be correct then what he gets now."
Pretty much. If you want direct sources you can't embarass them publicly. His before-and-after track record's still impressive, though.
"The truth is NOBODY has any fucking clue at all about what is going on with a Superman film. NOBODY. Everything is speculation and rumors at this point and to pretend otherwise is foolish."
Well, I'm not sure about THAT. I'm pretty sure Horn has a good idea. Maybe the DC brain trust, too. Still, I see your point. Nobody on this blog is privy to Horn's brain (AFAIK), and I doubt he'd be straight with anyone, considering the legal issues.
I'd just like to say that whatever I've posted here wasn't intended as a jab at Steve' or colors' or Kevin's or anyone else's overall credibility. I think this site's done a fantastic job of keeping up with the rumors and has been more accurate than anywhere else, personally. That's why I'm here; Steve's accuracy wowed me. Keep up the great work, guys.
Exactly, we have to just wait and see. Oh and I don't hate Steve even though it may seem that way. I come here because I support his idea for a reboot. We definitely need one, so let's stop all this pointless arguing. It's getting old. Agreed?
ReplyDeleteYea so much debating sucks at times like all the debates that continue on shh boards, but some is good some is bad. As for news and true and false no one is ever 100% correct. Thats life. We just have to hope their is more correct news coming out then the standard bull shit news.
ReplyDeleteYes right now for supes we have no clear 100% where things will go. I do hope we get a full on reboot and it will be a much better rounded film. Cant wait to the day to get online and see the official news we all want to see.
Showtime has been more accurate than Steve???
ReplyDeleteHuh?
I couldn't have been away that long
FWIW, I see over on SlashFilm there's a snippet from an interview that David Goyer gave to MTV re "Super-Max" where he states that Warners are "currently mining ALL DC properties"
ReplyDeleteWasn't there supposed to be a Supes cameo in that one?
actually i believe it was/is green lantern that has clark kent cameo, though if things are settled with supes before filming get to that scene if its kept its probably wont be in the film. Why choose one guy or another to play kent cameo, but then next film its someone else right. At most i could go with seeing empty clark kent desk, someone calling his name, but its shown that we just missed him by mear moments and she is chair spinning around or something.
ReplyDeleteAs for supermax i believe we were just going to get some b/c list villains in their, a few GA villains too, and then their was rumors of lex/joker being in but, with supes not known where it be lex shouldnt be in the jail. As for joker i could live with just seeing a cell door with his name on it, and maybe some sinester laughter coming from cell.
Though we will just have to see what comes about with new writer for supermax will it actually get green lit and all that.
I'm sick of bullshit non-appearance appearances like those. It's not 1995 anymore. Put the character in the movie or leave him out, but stupid shit like that is out of the question.
ReplyDeleteBut then Supermax was a stupid idea in the first place anyway...
- thecolorsblend
Supermax would have been a good idea if it wasn't supposed to be the introduction to the character. If they made that the plot of a sequel or something then I could see it. Not as a first movie for Green Arrow.
ReplyDeleteYeah Steve, odd way to introduce the character for the big screen
ReplyDeleteAnyone else think there's a good chance the "updated take on Robin Hood" set in a dystopian London is going to be the Green Arrow origin? It's being made by WB, for starters.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.riskybusinessblog.com/2009/08/futuristic-robin-hood-at-warner-bros.html
I take back everything I said above. The Superman fans are now screwed.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007269.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
"In an ongoing Federal court battle over Superman, Judge Stephen Larson ruled Wednesday that the family of the superhero's co-creator, Jerry Siegel, has "successfully recaptured" rights to additional works, including the first two weeks of the daily Superman newspaper comic-strips, as well as portions of early Action Comics and Superman comic-books.
"The ruling is based on the court's finding that these were not "works-made-for-hire" under the Copyright Act.
"This means the Siegels -- repped by Marc Toberoff of Toberoff & Associates -- now control depictions of Superman's origins from the planet Krypton, his parents Jor-El and Lora, Superman as the infant Kal-El, the launching of the infant Superman into space by his parents as Krypton explodes and his landing on Earth in a fiery crash."
I was just reading about that myself. Wb/dc and inturn us fans are really going to get screwed now. If come 2013 wb/dc and the families cant work on some deal to keep things at dc. Now i really hope they can do a new movie so we can at least one more go at this.
ReplyDeleteThe recent court ruling makes it inevitable IMO that the Sieglas and Shusters will go to another studio and comic company (its going to be Marvel) in 2013 and create a fairly close to Superman character.
ReplyDeleteThey now have the origon story. Toberoff knows the boiy scout image has to be dumped to make Supes a competitive character.
This ruling gives the heirs enough of Superman to shop him.
As I told you, assuming WB would do naother film before they lost the rights was setting yourselves up for a big fall.
It's over now IMO. WB and DC retire the rights they keep in 2013, and the heirs go to Marvel and create a new Superman.
No way WB makes a film now.
On the bright side - we'll at least get some good villains.
On the down side, classic Superman is dead.
well its possible they could still do a film, we wont know to the deadline comes and goes if their is no film. Yes its likely they will not make the deadline which will suck for wb/dc comics fans of the characters. Yes now with the siegels owning most of the origin elements plus or minus some details dc still owns fully themself. They can make a new superman they just wont have vision powers/flying powers, and no jimmy/perry, and lex, no kryptonite, and none of the major villains i believe.
ReplyDeleteI dont know if fans would fly towards a depowered supes and recreate other stuff on the fly. I doubt it could end up being as successful as present day/past dc comics supes. Its all waiting game.
It will be interesting com 2013 when shuster's heir gains the rights too if wb/dc cant make a deal with them, i wonder how they will rip the character out of dc comics world. I hope wb/dc could make a deal but its likely they wont be able too. With the siegels bad blood with dc from what i read, i dont know how the shuster's heir feel about the character. So maybe they could be the factor here.
Webhead,
ReplyDeleteThis is actually an opportunity to make Superman great again.
Yeah, Marvel won't have Jimmy or Lex and brainiac but really, is that such a deficit?
WB and DC have mis-handled Superman for decades now. DC is trying yet anothert origin story (their last in light of the court ruling) but this only 5 years after Birthright.
The down side ios that there will not be another Superman film for 10 or so years. But even if WB had retained the rights there was not going to be another Superman film in the next decade anyway.
The heirs own arguably 70% of the character now. I ask you, would you rather Marvel comics and marvel studios take that 60% and create a kick-ass Supes that draws 130 million in its premier weekend or for WB to take on Superman again. When WB itself clearly does not get the character (SR - hello!!) and was going to put off another Superman film for years till after it ran through it's "secondary" lineup of superheores?
This is good news as the split between WB and the heirs is not 50/50 anymore. That would have killed Superman as a recognizable character.
It's now 65/35 in favor of the heirs.
And the suit needed updating anyway which marvel will do out of the box.
BTW webhead, I think Toberoff's plan from the get go was to get the lion's share of the Superman rights so he and the heirs could shop it to other comic companies and studios. This will be far more lucrative for the heirs than a compromise agreement with WB. Which is what I have been saying for a long time. The heirs and Toberoff have no interest in coming to a resolution with WB/DC. JMHO but its looking more and more that way.
ReplyDeletetrue but we will still just have to wait and see what happens with wb if they do or dont get a film off the ground by the 2011 deadline. Yes the families come 2013 when the shuster's come into play could take it elswhere and probably will be marvel if thats the case. I know their isnt alot going for wb/dc at this time but we still got a few years between now and 2013 were a deal could be made. But like i said its likely not going to happen with siegel's bad blood. But we shouldnt just give up now. When we dont know for sure what will wb/dc do wit hthe film deadline, and i was just reading in i think one of the links about the new news if wb can get a supes film up by the deadline they retain superman film rights for like 20 yrs? i not to sure if that is what i read and all that.
ReplyDeleteI do hope wb/dc could work something out with the families to keep the full superman together at dc and all that. We will just have to see what happens their?
Also as i said in above post if dc does loose out fully i wonder how their final supes story will go and what the heck they can do with the retaining elements they fully have rights too, then what happens with characters like mon-el, superboy-superboy prime, supergirl?????
Mon-El, Supergirl, Superwoman, Lex Luthor can be carried forward easily by WB.
ReplyDeleteLex is being featured in Bat's title now.
DC is preparing to retiure Supermanb., They have been for a while. Superman is no longer in Action comics and Mon-El has replaced Superman in the Superman title.
I looked to what DC was/is doing and determined they were going to let Superman go in 2013. It's hard not to read it otherwise.
It's all about money. Superman does not make money for DC or WB. The court battle on DC and WB's part is not so much to keep the franchise but to keep what they owe the heirs for 1999 - 2012 to a minimum.
My personal opinion is that WB and DC have already decided to retire the character. You can't help but read their court tstimony and come to another conclusion.
That is why this court decision is so good for Supe's fans. Its gives one party, the heirs, definitely more than half the character. That is needed if a Superman of sorts is to continue after 2013.
Like I said, good news. And I think that, though we will now have to wait 10 - 15 years for another film, when it is done (by Marvel I bet) it will blow us away and have us thanking the day for this court ruling.
Ican see all that and i said before online other places i dont read dc comics more a marvel guy. I have read some things here and their from dc. But it is a bit disapointing to the dc fans to have him in a few years to be ripped out of the universe and certain things cant be said/done any more for wb/dc comics.
ReplyDeleteI would love if something could be worked out with all parties, but from what i read online its likely not going to happen.
Though like i said before we cant just give up now cause what if wb does and get a film out during their deadline period. That would probably change somethings and all that. But we dont know.
IMO the heirs and Toberoff are not happy with the "returns" WB and DC made from Superman.
ReplyDeleteDC marginalized the character for years now. The special editions, new TPs and such were all Batman, Flash, GL and others.
IMO DC let the franchiswe coast. because they assumed it provided a steady but small retuen or because it did not make money? I don't know.
Either way under oath in Court WB basically stated they do not beleive in the franchise.
Given that why would any Supes fan want to see it continue with DC/WB?
Even if the heirs/Marvel get 65% of something they will turn into an in-your face popular frabchise again that is better than WB having 100% of a franchise they have done squat with in 15 plus years.
As I said, this is good news for Superman fans. WE now need to keep our fingrs crossed the court gives even more of the rights to the heirs.
This was never going to work with a 50/50 split. It is now tilting towards a more than 50 split to the heirs. That is good.
Too many assumed IMO, even Steve, that WB was open to making another film. I never beleived that. The latest rumors were debubked even before this court ruling.
WB is playing games. It's time to move the franchise to a comic company and studio that does not play games. Don't you think?
Well we dont know really if in the end if wb is just going to give up the film rights you know. They could still pull something off by the 2011 deadline. Will it happen i would like to see that. But yea its likely wont happen.
ReplyDeleteThen as i think i was saying yea taking the character to another company like marvel with only like 60-70% of the character could make a killing. But just as likely as it making a killing, it could fail misreably and not become another icon like it has for wb/dc.
I'd take 65% of Su[es at Mervel any day over 100% of Supes at DC.
ReplyDeleteFrankly webhead, I think DC and WB were going to retire Superman in 2013 anyway. Hopes for a film started by 2011 were never going to pan out.
The hard part is we have to wait till 2013 to see where the heirs take Superman. The exciting part is, if they take him to Marvel, I think we are in for a ride!
Yea it should be interesting to see where things do fall come 2013, and if and it is a big if wb could get another film off the ground.
ReplyDeleteWebhead, IMHO WB has no intention of doing another film. Even before this court deciusion. This court decision only makes it more finacially impossible and reckless to do another film.
ReplyDeleteRobinov's job would be on the line.
The good news is that this court ruling should put an end to the rumors of another film. Those rumors were just setting up fans for a fall. Let's see how the analysis plays out, but this ruling so far from what I read makes another film pretty much impossible for WB.
Well yea its more of a risk now with the new ruling and all that. But it will not stop the rumors untill wb says something/by 2011 nothing happens. Us fans will continue to hope for things to happen.
ReplyDeleteHang on again. How much money do you expect to get from Marvel by selling them a "depowered" Superman? Especially if Warners say the franchise is worthless? They don't print comics and make "Smallville" as a bloody charity effort. And they certainly don't prolong the court process for something YOU claim they have no interest in.
ReplyDeleteYou make it sound like Warners/DC take a loss on Superman. Stop trying to read what you want into these Court updates and make them validate your opinion. It's too early to tell. You must look up a couple of words..."SETTLEMENT" and "SMALLVILLE"
yea we have no clue really what is going to happen. Will wb get a film out by the 2011 possible, will it not happen also possible. I hope for the latter and we see a film. Will when the shuster's come into play in 2013 take the character away from wb/dc who knows. Its a grim possiblitity to think of. But i do really hope in the end things can be worked out for all parties and each get a nice piece of the pie that is superman.
ReplyDeleteReally would any other studio/company want to take a depowered supes, none of his stable villains and have to recreate the icon all over again. With the state comics are in in present day world i doubt it could be the sucess it has been for wb/dc comics.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think it's going to be a long, rough haul from here on out for Superman fans. Worst case scenario: DVN's right. Superman's retired @ DC. The character goes to Marvel, who make a kewl, edgy version of the character that longtime fans hate, splitting the fandom right down the middle a la Dune and Jason Bourne, making the old guard of fans completely swear off the new stuff while the noobs who just came in whine and complain about how the old guard just don't get it and have their collective heads up their asses.
ReplyDeleteEvery Marvel character has to have a "Marvel flaw". Superman's flaw is that he believes in everyone's basic goodness and desire to do the right thing, leading to naive decisions and reasoning. Marvel will never, ever get this.
Never mind the fact that if you want to see a "Superman in the Marvel U" all you have to do is read Wildstorm comics and follow Majestros and Apollo.
Also, I don't think WB's going to give up Superman because of the ancillary benefits and profits they make on licensing. Superman just rakes in the money, regardless of whether there's a movie or not.
Who knows, though? This is all just my opinion and weirder things have happened.
Zanaan,
ReplyDeleteEven without this latest setback for WB/DC, I've been thinking for a while WB planned on retiring Superman.
Just look at how DC has dropped Superman from most of his titles. If focusing on revivals of Flash and GL. All the DC comic news at ComiCon was about characters other than Superman. Replacing Superman with Mon-El in the Superman book is maybe a trial run for a DC world without Superman?
Robinov is a strategic thinker. Look at the way he brought in DC talent and gave them a voice at WB.
WB doesn't feel Superman is finacially viable if what they said in Court is what they really believe. They know they don't get the character. They've been burned for the decade 1995 - 2005 developing a new film/relaunch and it basically failed.
I see Robinov taking the elemnts WB retains, bringing in top notch writers and artists and creating a new character. With the idea of re-creating the success say of an Ironman.
There is probably more potential for future profit for WB in bringing forth a new character than in paying liscense fees to the heirs to try yet again at restarting the franchise.
Bottom line, after 2013 I think the Siegals go their way and create a "new" Superman with Marvel most probably and DC creates its own "new" Superman.
Yea who knows how things could go. Yes with supes being taken out of most dc titles besides that new krypton one could be their way of setting things up if wrost comes to wrost that they cant make a deal with the families come 2013. But that is still a few years away and who knows what could happen between now and then. Maybe a deal could be rearched maybe not.
ReplyDeleteI just wonder in the end what things will be. In my mind really a 100% superman would be better then a 70/30% superman either the families/dc could do without all elements today.
I really dont see either half alone being as sucessful as it is fully presently. With the state of the comic biz, and comic fans in general. Then economy too if things dont even out soon.
See, I don't think you can assume a Marvel Superman with 60% of the rights wouldn't be successful and certainly more successful than DC's Superman has been in recent years.
ReplyDeleteI think its going to come down to money and leveraging the rights to maximum profit for the Siegals.
And what Marvel can offer them WB can't.
First, a proven track record in turning second and third tier comic characters into major successful movie franchises. Ironman and Wolverine. Wolverine made tons for Fox - so much so Fox already has greenlit a sequel. Faster than TDK was greenlit after BB.
Second, Marvel is a completely comic book driven studio. It gets more superhero product out than WB ever could. The heirs not only get a shot at a big grossing premier film but many follow-ups. Moreso than they'd get at WB.
From a financial perspective, IMO, this is a no-brainer. Siegals take the rights to Marvel. I think that has been Toberoff's strategy all along. His firm is going to get a portion of the rights in payment for legal fees and I can't see Toberoff's production company settling for a deal with WB when Marvel is likely far more lucrative over time.
The lure of Marvel just gets stronger as it hits home-run after home-run in the superhero movie game. If Thor, Cap and Avengers are huge over the next 3 years that is going to make Marvel just look that much better as the path forward.
This is all just a bunch of speculative nonsense. If necessity is the mother of invention, assumption is surely the mother of all fuck ups, and there's plenty of assumption going on here. I promised myself I'd never post here again, but I'm making this ONE exception this ONE TIME.
ReplyDeleteTo paraphrase Wrighty, "The truth is NOBODY has any fucking clue at all about what is going on with a Superman. NOBODY."
And that goes for these court proceedings. Like it or not you just have to wait and see.
Personally I wished the Siegel family (and it is spelled SiegEL) could have won the whole enchilada, but that's just me.
Yea Today i actually had a chat about this whole thing with this local comic shop owner at his store i go to a few times. He believes folks are getting a bit out of hand and thinking the wrost will happen when it might not happen. And Yes the siegels and shusters in 2013 will own certain rights and all that. And we know they want money. So yea they can do what they want with the elements they want. But he was saying it isnt likely that wb/dc will lose the character. But who knows we will just have to see what ends up going on in the next few years.
ReplyDeleteHey Jerry! I was wondering what happened to you even before the website ended. I myself haven't been able to log in lately, I believe due to my Norton crap which is no longer a problem. However, I did wonder why you stopped posting? You now seem really bitter. What happened? Back on the site you actually seemed like the voice of reason in some ways. Was it due to some of the trolls that came along?
ReplyDeleteAs for the speculation about the 'Marvel Superman', that could be interesting but I'd prefer that some 'middle-ground' be reached between ALL parties & just get the comics back to normal AND the film franchise back on track. WB does currently suck at making Superman films BUT Supes IS a DC character. You don't just change 70 years of history. As for the heirs, they need to suck it up & realize that Supes IS an American icon, bigger than them. IF they want money, they may need to learn to play ball too.
Now, Superman over at Marvel fighting the Hulk would be GREAT to me, even in a film, BUT.....what chance would a 'deflowered Superman' STAND against the Hulk? OR Thor? OR Wonder Man? OR.....you get the picture. ;)
I am like that too guys, really whats the chances really with how the comic industy is today that a depowered 60-70% known superman elements flying well at marvel/image/etc...... companies.
ReplyDeleteWould said companies even want to chance on that? Its all business i know and where more money could be made and all that. Yes i think supes probably hasnt been that great last few yrs for dc and all that. But it would be foolish to loose 100% superman.
Really i think if it was allowed to stay at wb/dc all parties could make an agreement and with the millions made on the character yearly from comics/merch/tv shows/cartoons/movies their is more then enough money for them all.
Though we probably wont know what is going to happen untill its closer to the time shuster's come into play late 2013 and all that. As for the potential of getting a film out by 2011 deadline stated by the courts hopefully it can happen and hopefully it will be able to use all the elements that makes supes who he is and all that. Then makes a boat load of money for wb/dc.
I do think with the right people in charge the right cast, and market it the right way it could be a good sucess for them. Then it could help their case out to show the families staying at wb/dc is where to go.
Zanann mentioned if Superman goes to Marvel it'll split the fans down the middle.
ReplyDeleteLet me say this about that - like when in recent years have the fans not been split down the middle? SR brought that to head.
Supes fan are a breed unto themselves. Sometimes their own worst enemy. It like they automatically form into the proverbial circle and start shooting at one another.
In any case, there are fans who want the Siegels to win as much as possible from DC/WB and take Superman to Marvel. They have a legitimate point of view IMO. Driven by 2 things as I see it.
1) DC/WB have not exploited the character for a long time now. Way before SR. Going back to the 90s. DC is much at fault here. Batman got all the special editions and trade paperbacks, toys, games and on and on.
The best artists and writers went to Bats and Flash and GL and others. Not to Superman.
The franchise is damaged and boring as WB said. But why? Some feel Superman has faded because DC/WB have not grown the franchise. Instead they let it drift for decades now.
2) These fans feel, rightly so IMO, that left at WB another Superman film is at least 15 years away. If GL and Flash become Ironman-like franchises Superman will be on the backburner indefinitely.
The sense of some is that WB is incapable of getting another Superman film out - let alone make a great film.
It took 11 years to get Superman on screens (1995 - 2006).
GL? The go-ahead for development was given about a year ago, a few months from now, GL starts shooting. Its looking as if Flash will move forward just as smoothly.
I think some honestly believe that if Marvel "steals" Superman in 2013 that studio and comic company are going to exploit and use Superman in a way that could not happen again at DC/WB. Another Superman film? Marvel could probably have it out in 3 years.
I'm a die-hard classic Supes fan. A year ago I would not have been open to a Marvel Superman. Now I'm wavering some and wonder if, in the end, the best thing for the franchise might be to go to Marvel.
Personally, I understand and respect where fans wanting Superman at Marvel are coming from.
I can see your point man. But like i was saying last night we dont know for sure what is going to happen and we just have to see first in the next yr if a film could happen with wb. Then come 2013 what goes down with the shusters, along with the siegels and what ultimately happens with wb/dc comics.
ReplyDelete"WB doesn't feel Superman is finacially viable if what they said in Court is what they really believe."
ReplyDeleteThis has yet to be proven one way or another. Since all arguments hinge on the assumption of one of this statement's two possible outcomes, EVERYTHING'S SPEC.
On the note of Superman needing to ditch the "boy scout persona" to be viable, I can discount that with three words:
Vash. The. Stampede.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trigun_characters
"Let me say this about that - like when in recent years have the fans not been split down the middle? SR brought that to head."
Yes, and look at what happened because of it. Lawsuits. Jeopardized opportunities. Cries for lynchings for famous personalities. This would only be made worse by a "Marvel Superman". Why would WB want to encourage that?
Zanaan, I don't think WB cares about a fan backlash. It will be a purely business decision if they let Superman go to Marvel.. But yeah, there would be a huge fan split.
ReplyDeleteI don't think WB cares about Superman. If WB really cared for the franchise and fans it would never have allowed Singer to do the Lois with a child out of wedlock by Superman thing. That is sticking it to the fans - my personal opinion.
Yes, Morrison and the others came on shortly after last fall's WB/DC summit. They pitched Superman ideas and the assumption is nothing came of it.
The trial proved that assumption IMO. WB didn't know they'd be asked if there was a Superman script. Yet Horn answered directly no there isn't. So, after almost a year on board, no script from Morrison, Johns or Wolfman? I think it is what it is. It fits with Steve's comments about WB not interested in seeing Superman scripts.
The clincher for me is the frenzy of activity at DC over GL and Flash. They are right now eclipsing Bats in the DC universe. Why? WB and DC are marketing the upcoming films. Solid strategy.
At the same time Superman is seemingly being phased out of the DC universe. He's down to just 2 books. Mon-El's replaced him in Superman.
At the very least I take that to mean no film is on the horizon for Superrman. To not have the character front and center in the years leading up to a film would be marketing suicide.
Beyond that, this might even be the start of DC phasing out Superman - building up other characters and books in anticipation of retiring him in 2013. I dunno. It's a odd maneuver.
Certainly the Siegels want a film. Because of the DVDs, video games, toys they'd get a cut of the profits from.
So, if WB refuses to start a film by 2011, what does that tell the Siegels? My guess is that Toberoff will say look, WB isn't going to make a film anytime soon. And especially if GL and Flash are mega-franchises like Ironman by then. If Marvel tells the Siegels in 2013 they are set to go with a film I don't think the Siegels will think twice before going with Marvel.
This is my personal opinion. All I can do is read the tea leaves. I see one thing, others something else. It's what makes life interesting and tea leaf reading not a science.
well like i said folks i been talking to about the whole copyright thing the whole doom and gloom folks think might happen could likely not happen like we think. Yes the families have the rights to certain things which means they can make money off of said stuff just lik wb can and does with superman currently themselfs and in the past.
ReplyDeleteWill the families take what they have and run to another company it is a very possible thing. But we dont really know if between now and then if things can change between the families and dc/wb. They could after all this lawsuit crap make a deal that works for everyone. If not it will be sad. So untill its closer to these events or their is more news between the families and dc/wb we should all hope for the best that everything stays intact and not doom the fans/company and say things will go totally south.
So like i have said a few times its all a waiting game we have to play and see what happens. And if and we know that it is a big if with all the trouble their has been with getting a film up and runing. Maybe they can maybe they wont, i hope they do. And if it ends up being a sucess which i totally believe it could be it could change everything.
yep
ReplyDeleteYa know, I believe it was back on the website that Colors made a good point about 'the heirs'. In reference to Siegel & Shuster, he said that back then they SOLD Superman to the comics company (then National-later called DC). It was a business decision. Was it really a FAIR business decision? As Colors said, probably not, but that's life; DEAL with it!
ReplyDeleteYa know, it's not like Siegel & Shuster are the ONLY ones who've ever been screwed by their employer. Been there, done that, right? But sometimes you have to just suck it up & move on.
However, it seems that this thing has eaten away at them over the decades like a cancer, first with them personally, & now with their descendants. So now grandchildren have to get vengence for dear ol' Granddad & his memory. And HANG the fans while they're at it.
Ya know, IF the heirs get THEIR way, it's the FANS who are the REAL losers! What a steaming pile of BS!
THANKS BS! :(
Yea things are so crazy. But untill we know more details or if their is no deal reached between all parties their is nothing us fans can really do and all we can do is sit and wait how things play out.
ReplyDeleteSomething I just realized by, like, reading the court documents:
ReplyDeleteDC didn't lose the rights to the origin. The Siegels won co-ownership of the origin with DC. There's a difference. DC only loses the origin if Mark Peary wins his lawsuit.
I'm still holding out hope for a new Superman movie in 2012, based on this.
Ya know, it's like I said. At THIS point in time, the 'character' of Superman is an American ICON, IF that matters anymore. Like in the past they'd say 'baseball, hot dogs, apple pie & Chevrolet'. Well, in a sense, you could place Superman into this SAME mindset in public perception.
ReplyDeleteI mean, whether this is a good example or not, but in pro wrestling, what name will ALWAYS be synonymous with wrestling NO MATTER WHAT? HULK HOGAN! It won't matter what Vince McMahon or anyone else does, Hogan will ALWAYS have his place cemented in history, & in a sense, Hogan also became an American icon. Even though he's now old & all. Also regardless of any legal issues.
I'm sure there are other examples if I bothered to look for them but you get the point. This 'American icon' status tends to transcend the 'BS' of individuals & even trends. I'd dare say that IN SPITE of Singerman & other such problems that Supes has ALSO transcended even what the heirs & their lawyers try to pull.
I mean, if you're like me, how ofter do you see someone out in everyday life with an 'S' on their T-shirt? I see it often enough for it to resonate. So I say JUSTICE for Superman.
NUFF SAID!
Working out a deal between WB/DC and the Siegels is going to be extremely difficult as I see it.
ReplyDeleteIt's not simply agreeing on a licensing fee. The larger issue is exploitation of the franchise.
A licensing agreement is worthless if WB sits on the franchise and waits another 22 years to do a film. Comic books don't generate revenue, I doubt 'S' logo t-shirts/coffee mugs are money makers either. Besides, DC continues to wholly own the 'S' so the Siegels get nothing there.
Toberoff owns a production company. The guess is he will get part of the Siegel's rights as payment for his legal bills that have to be huge.
Toberoff wants to make money going forward. That only happens to the extent Superman is exploited in multi-media venues. Film, TV, internet, video games.
Any deal almost certainly will demand benchmarks to whomever licenses Superman in order to keep that licensing active. Basically, the licensee will have to produce so much multi-media content over so many years or the deal is voided.
For WB to agree to this type of thing means a disruption of their business model. WB has very lucrative franchises and more like GL and Flash on the way likely to be more successful that Superman.
WB raises only so much capital to make films each year and just a part of that is allocated to superhero films. Having to dedicate a portion of it to Superman, whether the films are profitable or not, puts an artificial constraint on the studio with possible negative financial impacts.
Question is, will WB agree to something like this? Nostalgia is fine and all but, from a practical level, I can't see this being acceptable to the studio.
It's easier for the Siegels and Marvel to work something out. For the very fact that Marvel is just a superhero studio. It doesn't have to balance the limited yearly cash it raises between comic films and other genres. And its been very successful at optioning out some of its character rights to SONY and Fox.
Marvel has the potential to have 4 of its superheroes on screen each year. WB 1 or, in a good year, maybe 2.
I think Marvel is the only company that can exploit Superman in a way that gives the Siegels and Toberoff the revenue stream they want.
well it is all possible that the siegels/shusters could go off to marvel/their own company/etc.... Like many have been thinking could happen. But like i was pointing out the last few days the people i have talked about this with and copyright/trademark stuff. The option of the siegels/shusters jumping ship is a way out their chance. Could it happen yes. But just as likely a deal could and probably would be reached for all invovled.
ReplyDeleteThen another thing we have to look at if the trademark/copyright laws dont get changed again in a few years. Come another 20 or so yrs it wont even matter who has superman at this point. Because it will then be in the public domain and then anyone could use it.
So right now lets not think of the wrost case seneriao and hope things dont change and the character can get another film up, be sucessful, have a string of good comics/merch out that sells well. Then also the character stays fully intact at DC where he started at and belongs with the rest of their universe.
I think some fans are too quick to write off a Marvel Superman and too doom and gloom about the possibility of it happening. Personally, I think it could be the best thing to happen to the franchise.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree a 60% - 70% Supes at Marvel can't be more profitable than a 100% Supes at DC/WB. Not that a Marvel Supes is going to go to the top of the superhero heap, but I think a Marvel Superman will be more profitable and popular than Superman has been at DC/WB in a long time.
Whoever wins the rights is going to have to deliver product up front. The Siegels can't wait as the rights go public in 20 years or so. They have a relatively short window to cash in. A Marvel Superman will have to be on the front burner and front and center.
If Supes goes to Marvel, I hope Marvel/the heirs negotiate an agreement in 2012/2013 before the rights officially revert. That way a Superman film could be out as early as 2015. With WB, if they pass on a film by 2012, its probably 10 - 15 years before they'd do another.
Just saying fans should be open to considering the possibilities of a Marvel Supes. It could be a wild and fun ride.
Yea i totally understand and get your viewpoints dv but as i was saying the folks i have talked to have said it doesnt look like it will be all doom and gloom some are thinking here online and various boards and all that. So right now it just seems we will just be in an endless debate here if we just go back and forth on our views on this current court stuff.
ReplyDeleteSo I was just thinking what if we go back to the topic on hand of this thread and get back to i hopes/ideals for if WB can get a film going by the current court date.
Webhead,
ReplyDeleteUsing GL as a model, what do we know?
That film is coming out in summer 2011. It was put into development fall of 2008. That is a typical timeframe for a big-budget superhero film.
So, if WB is going to do a film for 2012, it pretty much has to be in development by fall. But streching that a little, I'd say if Superman is not in development by December 2009/January 2010 there isn't going to be a film.
So yes, if development starts in the next few months the film could be done for summer 2012.
As I've noted, December 2009 is pretty much the make or break date for another WB Superman film. At least we won't have to wait a year or more to know. Just a matter of 5 months.
"That film is coming out in summer 2011. It was put into development fall of 2008. That is a typical timeframe for a big-budget superhero film.
ReplyDeleteSo, if WB is going to do a film for 2012, it pretty much has to be in development by fall. But streching that a little, I'd say if Superman is not in development by December 2009/January 2010 there isn't going to be a film."
I don't know where you're getting that three year figure. Goyer started writing Batman Begins in 2003. Singer pitched WB on Singerman in July 2004. Both movies opened about two years later.
If WB is shooting for a 2012 release window, they're hardly under the gun. They need to get moving, no doubts there, but they've got until about July or August 2010 for a summer 2012 release date before the project even starts beginning to resemble "rushed".
I can think of a lot of things that would potentially threaten a Superman movie but lack of time isn't one of them at this point.
- thecolorsblend
Also, Kurtzman and Orko (or whatever the hell his name is) began working on the first Transformers script in Feb. 2005 and Bay signed on to direct in July or August of 2005.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we do end up getting some good news in the coming months on if and who will be takingn charge of superman this time around. Hopefully they seen their mistakes and will make better ones this time around. So if it does happen what writers/directors would you guys like to see?
ReplyDeleteDVN, we know YOU want a Marvel Superman. Just stop trying to bend everything to fit your hypothetical scenario.
ReplyDelete...and btw, if you really think Superman comics and merchandise don't make money, you've got rocks in your head.
I am sure taking all the comics, toys, games, dvds, etc..... merchs superman makes alot of dough for both wb and dc comics. I dont know where to go to find figures but i am sure it makes a good couple mill per year.
ReplyDeletefatherfinian,
ReplyDeleteA Marvel Superman is not my first choice. I want the classic Supes.
However, seeing how things are playing out, I may have no choice and am open now to a Marvel Supes.
If and when WB were to announce it's not doing a film by 2012, I think fans will suddenly start to see Marvel Supes as a real option.
It could come down to this choice. Do fans want to wait 15 years and maybe see WB do another film, or are they willing to try a Marvel Supes if it means a film in 5 years?
"I am sure taking all the comics, toys, games, dvds, etc..... merchs superman makes alot of dough for both wb and dc comics"
ReplyDeleteThese figures are not released and we really don't know if Superman is a big money maker or not. Fans want to assume he is but.....
The Court has seen actual figures of profits from toys, comics, dvd's, films and all the rest as part of the process of determining what portion of that amount the Siegels get.
The Court hasn't released the figures - don't know if they will eventually or not - but it did say the franchise is not too finacially viable.
We can hope otherwise, but the court's comments imply that Superman does not make a lot for DC/WB.
Here we go again.....
ReplyDeleteYOU said that a Marvel Superman was the "best thing that could happen"
YOU said comics don't generate much revenue.
Now by "the court's comments" do you mean Warners statement? Or has the "court" ruled that as such??
Just stop jumping the gun and contradicting yourself when held to account
Oh..."the Court hasn't released the figures"
ReplyDeleteSheesh!
Yea we should jsut wait and see what happens cause right now their is nothing we can really do. Since its all up to the courts and all that. Hopefully things wont end up in the doom and gloom like some think. I am trying to stay optimistic and all that. But its all a wait and see.
ReplyDeleteFinian,
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for the guy to explain how it takes three years for WB to make a Superman film. Still haven't gotten an explanation on that one.
DVN,
How do we know that WB turns decent coin from Superman swag? Possibly the fact that they keep manufacturing/licensing it. T-shirts, key chains, bobble heads, action figures, all that stuff and more is released every year. If Horn said that Superman's a weak franchise, mightn't he be referring to the film franchise? I wouldn't imagine Horn would know all that much about the merchandising side when it comes to general Superman products that aren't specifically related to films.
- thecolorsblend
"I don't know where you're getting that three year figure. Goyer started writing Batman Begins in 2003. Singer pitched WB on Singerman in July 2004. Both movies opened about two years later."
ReplyDeleteIt's not a 3 year figure. It's a 2 1/2 year figure. January 2010 to summer 2012.
To clarify, I'm referring to development. What became SR was in an intense casting search by early 2004. It was in development almost 10 years.
I'm using the GL model. It went into development last fall. Actually more than 2 1/2 years ahead of release. It goes into production this fall. 1 year and 9 months or so ahead of release.
Given the greater risk a Superman film is than GL and the problems SR had because it was rushed, I don't see WB starting production on a Superman film later than they are on GL - relative to release date.
Meaning Superman has to be in production late in 2010.
To wait till August 2010 to start? Casting could take months. Production could end up being more rushed than SR. Even at that, casting for what became SR started in early 2004. A full 2 1/2 years out.
I think casting has to be underway early next year. Meaning a director in place by then. These activities would leak out. Which is why I think if there is no real Superman film news by very early 2010, then another film is not going to happen. At least at WB anyway.
Hope that clarifies what I meant.
"Hope that clarifies what I meant."
ReplyDeleteVery illuminating, actually. For starters, I'm more convinced than ever that you don't know what you're talking about.
- thecolorsblend
Ok i was just reading now it looks like shazam film is back on tracks with wb with a new writer bill birch writing along with Geoff johns. Now with his working on this and is working on flash.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking maybe this is a good sign that wb is trying to get johns/morrison/wolfman working on pretty much all actively looked at properties. So maybe and we all know with how much trouble things have been. Maybe they are or at least one of the 3 along with some other script writer is or will soon be announced to also be working on supes.
It would be smart for wb to get at least onee of them attached to supes along with some other writer to hash out a script in next few months get it to wb's likely and while they look for a director hopefully within the next few months.
Now this is just all my thoughts and opinions. So dont quote me for what i am thinking. I am just thinknig of some best case things that could end up happening.
webhead,
ReplyDeleteThis is a good sign for DC fans. Johns said at ComiCon that news would be coming shortly about film projects that would be good for fans.
The Johns report is, unfortunately, not good for Superman fans. When Johns and the other 2 first came on it was just assumed one of the 3 would write Superman.
Now it turns out Johns will not being doing Superman, but Flash and Shazam.
Morrison and Wolfman are working on projects in the early stage of development according to the THR article. That same article said Superman is not one of the projects in development, but in limbo. It's clear from that article that Superman is not happening anytime soon.
This new Johns story adds further confirmation to that IMO.
Don't forget, a few weeks back WB said it has no plans to put Superman into development.
Its not doom an gloom, its just the way things are.
Fans keep trying to create scenarios where there might be another film even though WB is saying no and even though the 3 writers from DC are not working on Superman.
I guess until WB specifically says it's not putting out a Superman film in 2012, fans will continue to cling to what are IMO false hopes.
Another reason the apparent fast-tracking of Shazam is bad news for Superman?
ReplyDeleteShazam is a very Superman-like character and was created originally as a competitor sort of Superman by Fawcett.
I think Shazam works as a replacement franchise to Superman for WB.
We'll see.
Ok i dont have the link for this at this moment. But i was just over at the SHH boards, and their was a new article about james Mct. It was with mtv movies, and he said he would do a full on reboot, things would be totally different, and he was saying with all the court stuff things could work in favor of the siegels having rights on the origin stuff.
ReplyDeleteIf any one wants to post the link and what he totally said. go ahead. i am having some internet problems today.
but..but..but..Johns is also writing another episode of Smallville too.
ReplyDeleteYou mean people can do more than one thing at a time?? Wow! What a concept....
If you think Captain Marvel would work as a replacement for Superman, you really do have rocks in your head. Or you're 12 years old. IMO.
Now I wouldn't want Capt. Marvel as a 'replacement' for Superman although I wouldn't mind a Shazam film.
ReplyDeleteBut ya know, this lawsuit & the mention of Capt. Marvel reminds me of something. Remember back in the Golden Age of comics (no I wasn't there) how Fawcett came up with the character AFTER the creation of Superman at the then-National Comics AKA DC? It's my understanding that National SUED Fawcett based on Capt. Marvel being a 'ripoff' of Superman.
I haven't done any recent research but I recall how the 'Marvel family' pretty much survived the Golden Age even post-WW2. However, I believe at some point (was it 1948-1950?) that Fawcett finally succumbed? And naturally 'DC' ended up with the characters. Nevertheless years later they couldn't call the comics Capt. Marvel since MARVEL COMICS came out with THEIR version AKA Captain Mar-vell, as in that famous graphic novel.
Now WB/DC are being sued by the heirs of the creators of Superman & may LOSE the character? I think the phrase I'm looking for is called POETIC JUSTICE. No, I'm NOT for what the heirs are trying to pull but I find it ironic how DC 'screwed' Fawcett in times past & now THEY'RE being screwed.
Poetic indeed?
I can't envision Capt. Marvel as a replacement for Superman, unless they stick with stories like The Power of Hope. I'd think WB would go more in the direction of a Spy Kids movie for Marvel though... which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just isn't anything like the tone a Superman story would go for.
ReplyDelete- thecolorsblend
i really dont see why johns or the other two dc writers couldnt do supes too. We know johns is writing another smallville episode, on top of producing and doing a treatment for flash that then goes to another writer. Then with shazam he is working with another guy on that.
ReplyDeleteSo why could he or morrison/wolfman also do superman on top of what ever projects morrison/wolfman might be doing that hasnt been revealed. Whos to say they wont be the only ones working on a treatment/first draft. If say X writer is invovled too that can help spilt up time between other projects and all that.
Wb would be total fools not to have either of the 3 invovled at least doing a treatment/draft for a superman project. We will just have to see how things play out in the coming months. As for all the lawsuit stuff i hope like i was saying the other week with the guys i was talking to it wont end up doom/gloom and it will be settled and superman retains himself fully intact in the DCU.
As i said the other day about the james news, i really like how he said if he does supes he would have it be a total reboot. Like SR should have been in the first place. I also hope if he does sign on board for the film they dont make the same mistakes singer did or any of the silly 90s attempts at the character.
As for the whole origin issue. I personally hope we do see the origin in some fashion. Yes alot of people know the origin and all that. But if the film is to reboot everything we need to see why things are different this time around.
How to go about the origin is the tough question their. Do u want to start out krypton-smallville-metropolis. Do you want to do TIH recaps of important things in opening credits and then start out like on clark's first day in the city/getting job/first rescue..... Or would u go with how BB did it with present day stuff relating back to origin stuff.
01) Open the movie with the ship landing in Smallville.
ReplyDelete02) Have him wearing the cape in Metropolis by the 30 minute mark.
03) Bring Brainiac to town.
04) Brainiac reveals the truth of Krypton to Superman (ie, flashback without actually calling it a flashback).
05) Make lots of money.
- thecolorsblend
In a desperate attempt to pull this back on topic... anyone seen District 9? Personally, I think we've found our Superman film director, in the form of Neill Blomkamp. District 9 shows a director who can handle thought-provoking stories and action at the same time. He's the guy. He's the one who'll be the Chris Nolan of the Superman franchise.
ReplyDeleteI know a lot of people have suggested that Nolan helm the Superman franchise, but he's totally wrong for it. His films rely too much on guilt to work for Superman. But the method Nolan's used for the Batman franchise CAN work for Superman. What Nolan did was to take grounded human emotions (fear, guilt, a need for justice) and show how they led to Bruce Wayne's transformation. Then he translated THAT into a sociopolitical situation (criminal escalation).
Blomkamp's done the exact same thing with District 9. He's taken grounded human emotions (fear, racism) and translated them into a sociopolitical situation (apartheid). And HIS method is the EXACT method that would work in a Superman film. Superman's presence provokes fear in the hearts of those who suppose themselves to be humanity's true powers, yet at the same time, he brings hope to those oppressed by the supposed powers.
There are so very many reasons why District 9 proves that Blomkamp's our guy, but I don't want to go into details if anyone hasn't seen it yet. Instead, I'll just point out that Blomkamp fashioned a visceral, human story out of what's probably the biggest film cliche ever. He crammed a ton of action and adrenaline into it. He made... LITERALLY... photorealistic VFX for the Prawns. And he did it all for $30 million!
Fuck, if WB doesn't hire this guy for the Superman franchise, they're complete idiots. He'll make the best Superman movie ever. He's the Chris Nolan indie director we've been looking for. And the fact that he's got Pete Jackson and Weta backing him up is just icing on the cake. I guarantee you Blomkamp's a better choice than any other director who's been suggested. INCLUDING the Wachowskis and/or J.J. Abrams. Both of those could turn out a decent, crowd-pleasing Superman, but Blomkamp would give it HEART in addition to the summer movie glitz.
i heard a few folks bring up his name on the shh boards. i think it would be an interesting guy to choose. Alot of folks have been saying we know wb isnt likely to go with a big name guy or someone who would take creative control like singer.So it could end up being guys like james Mct, district 9 guy, and folks like them.
ReplyDeleteIf a film does happen it should be interesting to see which person wb goes with this time around. Hopefully things will work out and we get a good film that fans can get behind and it does boatload of money for the studio